Dialogue With Qin Qibin: The Birth Of Feile Sound, The First Joint-Stock Enterprise In New China

In November 1986, an American guest, the chairman of the New York Stock Exchange, visited China and presented a gift to the Chinese leaders: an emblem of the New York Stock Exchange, with which you can freely enter and leave the New York Stock Exchange.

In return, Chen Muhua, then president of the people's Bank of China, presented a green "Shanghai Feile audio" stock to the guests on behalf of the Chinese leaders.

The shares are 10000 shares, 50 yuan per share, issued to the public by Jing'an Business Department of ICBC Shanghai Branch entrusted by Feile sound.

This is the first time that financial institutions have issued shares since the founding of new China.

The "open stock market" and "stock market" have become the starting point of China's stock market reform.

Qin feishao, chairman of the board of directors of qinfeishao, has made a public appearance. On the occasion of the development of China's capital market for 30 years, the 21st century economic report has an exclusive dialogue with Qin Qibin. He reviews the causes and consequences of Feile audio's stock issuance and thinks that it is "very accidental". He did not expect that he would "muddle" the stock of Feile audio to the public and set off waves in China's capital market

The birth of the first stock

21st century: please introduce the causes and consequences of Feile audio's stock issuance, and how does the idea of joint-stock system come into being?

Qin Qibin: at that time, I was a very ordinary cadre at the grass-roots level. I had no cultural and theoretical details, and my social experience was not too rich. After 20 years of retirement, it should be very accidental to look back on the motivation for doing this at the beginning.

In the early 1980s, under the promotion of the reform and opening up policy, all units began to train cadres in accordance with the requirements of "revolutionary, young, knowledgeable and professional". After rectifying the instruments, the Telecommunications Bureau of Shanghai sent me to the bottom of the Industrial Management Bureau. At that time, the industrial system carried out "learning from Daqing and Shougang", so I gradually stepped into the reform trend of state-owned enterprises or old enterprises, and I also knew some ideas of enterprise reform, including decentralization of power and profit, and revitalization of enterprises.

At the beginning of 1983, I was appointed the first deputy director of Shanghai Feile electroacoustic factory. The first deputy director was a special arrangement, which meant that I would take over. In 1984, I took over the old retired factory director and became the director of the general electroacoustic factory. At the beginning of that time, when the factory director had some passion, he wanted to do something: continue to follow the old factory director's way of focusing on production, management and efficiency, or take a new development road?

At that time, a prominent social problem was that the cadres and workers in old enterprises and state-owned enterprises were generally not enthusiastic, so they were all thinking about how to mobilize the enthusiasm of the staff and workers. Because I had two or three years' experience in "learning from Shougang and economic contracting responsibility system", I naturally linked the two propositions together.

At that time, I felt that to mobilize the enthusiasm of the employees, the main thing was to bind the interests of the enterprise with the interests of the employees.

At first, the main business of Feile electroacoustic factory was to make loudspeakers for TV, radio and recorder, which was a link of the industry chain. Later, we found that there was a strong demand for subwoofer in the market. Many enthusiasts like bass loudspeakers. Therefore, we considered turning the market demand into a system commodity to solve the market demand blockage. At that time, I also wrote an article on guiding consumption and stimulating consumption. This was a little creative at that time, and later became an important paper in the industry.

In this way, my initial thinking is: first, to tie the fate of the enterprise with the interests of employees; second, to expand the value chain of products to develop new demands for the market; and to establish new growth points for the development of enterprises through fund-raising.

So why do we have a joint-stock system? It should be said that it was inspired by the old industrialists and businessmen.

We are not a small factory in Changning District. We often go out to attend some symposia. I was greatly inspired by the fact that old industrial and commercial people raised funds to invest in enterprises. In fact, it was mainly the subscription investment of Aijian company. At that time, the Secretary of the Party committee of Feile General Factory was the cousin of Li Yining, a famous economist. Li Yining's research direction was related to the shareholding system. Therefore, we applied to the above authorities. At that time, it was not called to establish a joint-stock system, but to raise funds to start a new enterprise. It was so simple to develop a new product and put it on the market.

In terms of theory and practice, they are also influenced by their enthusiasm for reform. All of these factors together create a spark.

New China's first public offering of Feile sound. People's vision

21st century: what happened later?

Qin Qibin: later, Huang Guixian and Qiang Jiying, the Credit Department of Jing'an Business Department of ICBC branch, also came to me to inquire about the fund-raising. They proposed that they should apply to the Shanghai Branch of the people's Bank of China for fund-raising, and they could help us to apply for it. At the same time, they also wanted to join the new enterprise.

At that time, we assumed that this was an internal matter of the enterprise, and the scope could be expanded to the cooperative units at most. Later, I felt that we were still more supportive of our affairs. They proposed to report to the superior, so they pushed the matter forward again, thanking them for their courage to support us. In addition, at that time, the Shanghai Branch of the people's Bank of China had already issued Measures for social fund-raising. Therefore, we should also thank Gong Haocheng, an old scholar and expert, for making some rules forward-looking, so that our reform can be carried out step by step.

This event was originally the internal reform of Feile enterprise. However, with the support and participation of the Bank of Jing'an business department, the two passions of enterprise reform and financial reform in Shanghai in the early 1980s formed a convergence and produced a strong chemical reaction.

Later, we also reported to Wu Bangguo, member of the Standing Committee of the Shanghai municipal Party committee and Secretary of the Party committee of the municipal Party Committee on science and technology. Wu Bangguo, Secretary of the Party committee of the general factory and I worked together in the component company. Wu Bangguo served as the deputy manager of Shanghai electronic components industry company from 1978 to 1979. After finding Wu Bangguo, he did not say more, but said "I support.".

In this way, the reform of Feile sound is logical, with the support of the municipal leaders, the rules and regulations, the support of all social parties, and the needs of the enterprises themselves. I think that the reason why Feile audio company's reform has left a mark in the history of the capital market is that we should first of all thank the great environment of Shanghai, which can gather talents from all walks of life and give us enough room for development, so that we can dare to work and be competent. This is the unique charm of Shanghai.

21st century: what kind of "collisions" have taken place at the specific level of promotion?

Qin Qibin: first of all, I didn't expect that the social response was so strong that people always called to say they wanted to buy some stocks. But inside the enterprise, there was another scene. At that time, the salary of the employees was only 40 or 50 yuan, and I was only 76 yuan when I was the factory director. Therefore, to staff and workers to take out 50 yuan, 100 yuan to buy stocks, some reluctant, not down-to-earth.

Although our policy is very preferential, there is a minimum guarantee for fund-raising, and the dividend is higher than the bank interest, but the employees have their own ideas: on the one hand, you want them to take out their own money, and on the other hand, they think that enterprises should be able to give some more preferential policies, and it is better to buy stocks by way of bonus.

At that time, the amount of RMB 500000 was very large. Because I want to do things for the staff and workers, I want to take some money out of the employee welfare fund, which I can use as the leader of the factory. The second part is to raise funds from the society. Because of the strong response, the proportion of social fund-raising is gradually increasing. It used to do things for employees. As a result, during the financial year audit, according to the accounting system at that time, the welfare fund was changed into the production development fund, and from the employee welfare to the enterprise's foreign investment.

Next, we will go to the industrial and commercial registration, thinking of registering as Feile sound company. However, according to the industrial and commercial administration, those who are called "companies" need to have the approval of the bureau level units. The appellation of a "company" has caused a great misunderstanding and has become a collision point in concept and system. Now think of it, this is the system engineering in the early stage of reform, there are problems of matching and mismatching. To put it bluntly,

Maybe we were running too fast and suddenly, and we were not ready for everything.

Later, at the opening ceremony on November 18, many leaders and journalists attended. We are going to attend the opening ceremony of the stock market.

It is also entirely accidental to issue to the society.

At that time, the reporter of Xinmin Evening News interviewed me. At first, we issued it internally, but I think it is also a society, and there are other units participating in the stock market, which can be regarded as "society". The definition of society by both sides is not strict and the boundary is not clear. So at that time, I said it was issued to the public. When he reported, he added the word "open" to the public, which inadvertently pushed our reform forward.

There is another important thing. In order to make the stock issue formally, we and the bank have also studied the printing design of the stock. The industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC) has proposed that there are 13 elements in the design of stocks, which need to be printed by the mint, so we will follow the bank's suggestions. After that, do you want to go public? I said it will go public when it goes public. At that time, many employees were asking, "what's the use of buying your 50 yuan stock?" The stock can't be realized and the price can't be shown. It's also stressful for me.

In 1986, Shanghai began to trade over the counter.

Without this period of history, there would be no such thing as Verdin and the first stock. It should be said that ICBC's reform enthusiasm and enthusiasm are higher than ours. Therefore, Shanghai's reform is spontaneous and systematic. With stocks, the over-the-counter trading department was born, and then bond trading and circulation were born, which gradually formed the embryonic form of the capital market.

The expansion of the share system reform to the listing of "old eight shares"

21st century: the society has given you a high opinion on Feile sound's joint stock system and public offering. How do you view these comments?

Qin Qibin: when it was founded, the society had a lot of repercussions. University scholars were very sensitive and keen to grasp this information and went to Shanghai to conduct an investigation, which found a theoretical basis for our shareholding system. Interviews by domestic and foreign media also inspired me to a certain extent. Many teachers wrote praises to me. One of them, a professor from Shanghai Institute of foreign trade, who had never met before, wrote a letter saying, "you are a hero, and you have made a great journey." The road, courage.

In fact, I can not afford the title of "hero". Many unknown people have made great contributions to the reform of capital market. However, I am just a practitioner of enterprise reform, and I have inadvertently participated in the reform of capital market.

The 21st century: what are the opportunities for further expansion of shareholding system reform?

Qin Qibin: in the summer of 1985, the then municipal leaders said that they would come to me to learn about the reform. I didn't have any preparation at all. It was half a year since the sound company was founded. After the report, the leaders raised two questions: one is how to expand the reform pilot; the other is to realize the goal of reform: self experience, self-development, self financing of profits and losses, and self-discipline. After the leader left, the more we thought about it, the more we felt uncertain about the word "consider expanding", what the meaning of "expanding the pilot project" means, and what the four selves mean.

After three days of discussion, it suddenly occurred to me whether we should also carry out shareholding system reform in Feile electroacoustic factory, and whether the leaders want us to think about how to reform state-owned enterprises, state-owned enterprises and old enterprises.

This idea was finally recognized and supported. At this time, we have decided on the intention of deepening the reform, that is, the old state-owned enterprises and old enterprises should also adopt the shareholding system reform.

Now, Feile sound company has more spontaneous components, which is a bottom-up reform. In fact, the old eight share enterprises are part of the reform plan in the city. They are top-down and pave the way for the establishment of the capital market later.

Later, the leading leaders of Shanghai went to dafeile to carry out the investigation and Research on the expansion of the shareholding system reform, and proposed to carry out the joint-stock reform of the "four King Kong" (Shanghai steam turbine plant, boiler plant, heavy machinery plant, electric machinery plant, and later Shanghai Electric Group). At the same time, the municipal Party committee stepped up the study of the promulgation of the stock exchange laws and regulations, and made ideological mobilization, organizational preparation and institutional preparation for the establishment of the stock exchange in 1990.

At this time, Shanghai is fully prepared to embrace the securities market with open arms.

21st century: How did the reform of "old stereotyped stocks" be done after that?

Qin Qibin: first of all, the "old stereotype" (reform) is inseparable from Feile sound, which is closely linked with each other. Second, the leaders of Shanghai have consciously promoted development and made preparations for the establishment of the capital market in 1990.

We have only made one piece: the joint-stock reform, and then we have made the joint-stock reform plan for the general plant.

In the summer of 1985, municipal leaders and people from all walks of life came to a meeting to discuss the joint-stock reform plan of Feile electroacoustic factory. At the meeting, Wu Bangguo made a speech. One is why we need to reform and how to reform old enterprises. On the other hand, it is possible to take risks to engage in joint-stock system and issue stocks. We should also be prepared for failure. Why should we start with small enterprises? Because the risk is controllable. In case of failure, the city has the ability to control and minimize the social shock. I hope that all parties will support the reform, which also provides a mobilization for the reform of the old stereotyped stocks.

The joint-stock reform of the general plant was led by the municipal reform office and participated in the formulation of the plan, such as the design of equity structure. Feile general factory has state shares, collective shares, but also set aside a part of the society to raise funds - individual shares. Later, he felt that the name of collective shares was not accurate and lacked theoretical depth. He Haosheng proposed to change the name of collective shares to corporate shares. All of a sudden, the connotation expanded greatly, leaving room for the establishment of diversified economic structure and corporate property rights, and also laid the foundation for the reform of mixed ownership.

After 1990, the name of state-owned shares was gradually changed to state-owned shares, and the name of state-owned assets was changed to state-owned assets.

In the design of share structure, avoiding the loss of state-owned assets was the focus of the reform at that time. The state-owned shares could not be circulated, and the proportion should be absolutely controlled; the individual shares could not be too much, and could only be controlled at 15%. As a result, after the establishment of the stock exchange in 1990, great problems have arisen in the market circulation. The circulation volume is too small, leading to serious speculation. At that time, everyone was afraid of the loss of state-owned assets and the loss of control of state-owned assets, so we should be more cautious in the reform.

Another point of the joint-stock reform is to completely standardize the valuation and evaluation of asset securitization, which was already in place at that time. Therefore, as soon as the "old eight stocks" of the joint-stock system were carried out, the intermediary agencies in Shanghai developed rapidly, which is also a very important link in the capital market. The transformation of old enterprises used to have machinery and equipment, housing equipment, and there was no concept of capital and property. Therefore, in order to change into the concept of capital, it is necessary to evaluate or even reset the price. This set of standardized things started to be brewed and developed at that time. This step is very important.

In addition, I feel very important that at that time, the most popular point of view was that the state-owned enterprises should be listed on the stock market and realize privatization. However, we always insisted on China's joint-stock system rather than privatization. We insisted on gradually expanding under the premise of state-owned and absorbing individual shares. This is a problem of direction and principle.

Looking at the metabolism of capital market from the perspective of "old eight stocks"

21st century: the development of "old stereotype" is not particularly satisfactory. What is the reason?

Qin Qibin: "the development of the old stereotyped shares is not ideal. It has not been on the road of orderly development of reform, or the reform has stagnated. It is a pity that Shenzhen enterprises like Huawei have not been moving forward.

The reform of state-owned enterprises is a great historical task. There is still a long way to go in the reform, governance, management and development of state-owned enterprises. We should have a better understanding of the state-owned economy and state-owned enterprises.

To sum up, I feel that an important problem is that the legal status of corporate property rights has not been clearly defined for a long time.

Although the major shareholder of a state-owned enterprise is a state-owned enterprise, it does not think that you are the property of a legal person. It thinks that it is its property. After collecting funds from the society, it will do it in accordance with the state-owned assets management mode. Therefore, I emphasize the four self systems of legal person property rights, especially the independence and rigid protection of law. This is a process of historical development, and there is still a long way to go in the future. Fortunately, the "Civil Code" has come out, which makes it clear that legal persons have property rights and are protected the same as state-owned assets and private properties. Only by recognizing its independence can the main body of enterprise market operate and develop independently.

Second, the main task of the reform of our time was to solve the difficulties of state-owned enterprises, but there was not much emphasis on the adjustment of industrial structure and upgrading of product structure. Secondly, maybe we are not sensitive enough in the process of digital transformation. Although big Feile and xiaofeile have mixed up, the situation of the enterprise has not fundamentally improved. I have special feelings for them and wish them nirvana.

Therefore, I hope that through the summary of the capital market for 30 years, Shanghai can make a breakthrough in the mixed economy, in the private economy, and continue to deepen in the concept of state-owned enterprise reform. I hope that Shanghai will have a more diversified economic form, and all kinds of economic forms can be fully developed.

21st century: what do you think of delisting?

Qin Qibin: first of all, the delisting must be done. Some controlling shareholders "mash up the paste" and empty the listed companies. Finally, they confused the assets and did not develop. Of course, some controlling shareholders failed. In both cases, it will not work without delisting.

In our time, because there were not many listed companies and the asset capacity was not large, we were very cautious about delisting. The "one in one out" (registration system and delisting system) of the capital market, coupled with strict supervision in the process, forms a complete chain of marketization mechanism.

Another feature of the capital market of our time is that "St shell" is more valuable than normal good companies, which is very abnormal. But China is also a capital market with Chinese characteristics, and some of the listed companies are the money of the common people. Therefore, delisting is to withdraw, and the future reform can be further deepened. For most enterprises, the use of their "shell" resources can be transformed to reduce the shock of the stock market as much as possible.

Now it seems that the "shell" of listed companies is also regarded as a part of assets, which is the creation of the Chinese people. Under this shell, injecting new assets into the shell can be a way of thinking and a way.

21st century: what are the expectations for the reform and development of China's capital market in the future?

Qin Qibin: very confident.

In 2000, I was invited by the Party School of the CPC Central Committee to make an information film named "the road of national rejuvenation in a century". I realized that the reform of the shareholding system is an important part of the reform of the capital market and a major strategy for national rejuvenation.

I have great expectations for Shanghai to become an international financial center and a highland of the world capital market. After 30 years, it is not easy for us to go from a so-called "farmer's market" level capital market to an international capital market. The core problem in the capital market is the quality problem of the listed company. If the quality problem is passed, it will be easier to solve the problems in the future.

First of all, it can be expected that China's economic development will continue to improve. In less than 10 years or more, our country's GDP will expand from 100 trillion yuan to 200 trillion yuan, so the development of capital market has great potential. Secondly, from the initial development of B-share to now, with the Shanghai Luntong, Shanghai Hong Kong stock connect and a + H listing, it is more closely connected with the international capital market There are more and more high-quality assets to choose from; third, the well-off Chinese people have switched from the original saving concept to asset management, and they are more eager for high-quality assets and enjoying the dividends of the development of the capital market; fourth, more and more foreign investors are more and more optimistic about China's economic development, and are willing to invest in China.